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Readers Letters
Name: Mary Smith (pp)
Date: 05/07/2008
Comment: I was beaten and raped by the people who were meant to be protecting
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Mary Smith's eyes are brimming with tears as she talks of how she believes the Irish State "stole" her family's lives.
Mary, her brother Christy and her mother, Eileen, were all locked up in institutions.
Unmarried Eileen gave birth to both her children in the Magdalene Laundry in Cork.
Both babies were snatched from her arms the minute they were born and thrown into industrial schools.
They never saw their mother again and Mary only discovered she had a brother when she was 27 years old.
Eileen was hidden away in a mental hospital where she died, her son was also left in a mental institution where he still is today.
The State locked Mary in the Magdalene Laundry as they feared that she, like her mother would become a single mother.
Heartbroken Mary said that the state and Church ripped her family apart.
Mary said: "All my life I have experienced physical and mental torture in different institutions.
"I have been beaten and raped by people who were meant to be protecting me - I have been treated like an animal.
"The Church sanctioned the abuse and nobody could stop it.
"I never got to know my mother before she died and it was only 13 years ago I discovered I even had a brother who was left to rot in a mental institution.
"The Irish State and the Church destroyed my life and my family's life. Sometimes I wish I was never born."
The first two years of Mary's life is a mystery as she can't find any record of where she was.
Her first memory is of St Aloysius Industrial School, Clonakilty, Co. Cork when she was two years old.
An emotional Mary said: "I was at St Aloysius, run by the Sisters of Mercy, until I was 12 years old and it was complete torture.
"It was a hellhole, we were treated like we were not even human beings.
"I got no schooling while I was in there and the beatings were unbelievable.
"Like slaves we worked all the time - as children we were even made to wash sanitary towels.
"We had no contact with the outside world and were not allowed to speak to each other.
"If we were caught talking we would be beaten.
"We only got leftover food and if there was none we were fed gruel."
When the Clonakilty industrial school shut down an inspector in charge of the children placed them in different homes.
Mary said that six years later the same inspector, known as the 'cruelty man' by the kids, raped her.
She said: "Myself and six other girls were sent to St Joseph's school in Mallow, which was way more humane.
"We were educated a bit here and were allowed contact with the outside world - they treated us like humans."
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Name: Andrew Brennan (pp)
Date: 05/07/2008
Comment: Please post this on all websites that you know and send it on to Rome.
To The Pope
WE WILL NOT GO AWAY... until these requests are met by the Catholic church, nuns and priests world wide.
1] It is for the Catholic church, nuns and priest to believe us.
2] It is for the acknowledgement to the sexual abuse which was done to us by the nuns, priest and their workers, from the Catholic church, nuns and the priest.
3] It is for the acknowledgement to the abuse which was done to us by the nuns, priest and their workers, from the Catholic church, nuns and priest.
4] For the Catholic church nuns and priest to apologize for the spiritual abuse which was done to us by the Catholic church, nuns and priest.
5] The Catholic church is to tell the world the truth about what happened to us, while in their Catholic church orphanages around the world.
6] The Catholic church to pay for counseling for us and our children so as we can heal but not through the Catholic church.
7] Is for the Catholic church, nuns and priest to stop re-abusing us when we tell them our stories about what happened to us in their Catholic orphanages around the world.
8] The Catholic church, nuns and priest to apologize to us privately on paper and to apologize to us publicly for the world to hear the truth about what happened to us in their orphanages.
9] The Catholic church, nuns and priest to apologize on paper and publicly to our families about the lies they told us about them being dead and that they did not want us.
10] For us to tell our stories and have no hold over us any more, like their Confidentiality Clause they hold over us by the Catholic church, nuns and priest.
11] It is to stop saying that there was no wrong doing by the Catholic church, nuns and priest for abusing and sexual abusing us while in their orphanages.
12] For the Government of each country to apologize to us on paper and to apologize to us publicly for not stepping in and helping us when they knew what was happening to us.
13] It is to, as it would help us because of the torment and pain we went through and which we are still going through, we should all be given compensation.
14] For the Catholic church, nuns and priest to help us to find our families, because of the lies we were told about being orphans and that we had no families.
15] To pay the men and women to go back to their country of their birth and to pay for a house in each country for these men and women to stay while they are making acquaintance with their families.
WE WILL NOT GO AWAY.
Signed: 2 Andrew Brennan, St. Patrick's Industrial School for Junior Boys, Kells Road Kilkenny (January 1958-September 1962, St. Joseph's Industrial School for Senior Boys (September 1962-June 1967, St. Francis Xavier House, Gardiner St. Dublin. (January 1969 until August 1970) |
Name: Victim/survivor of St. Vincent's Industrial School, Goldenbridge,
Date: 05/07/2008
Comment: Victim/Survivor of Goldenbridge Industrial School, Inchicore, Dublin. Eire.
"Christine Doyle also said she had never seen babies strapped to potties in Goldenbridge, whereas her sister had claimed it was routine."
Re: Christine Doyle & Goldenbridge, Industrial School.
Just a few Goldenbridge points I would like to share - with whomever.
1) Christine (a) Doyle 'worked' with the babies in Goldenbridge
2) She was a very kind and 'innocent' person.
3) Also from my very vivid reminiscence of her, she was exceedingly caring and sensitive towards the tiny babies in her charge in Goldenbridge.
4) She (an unwaged employee) would have looked up to her employer, Sr. Xaveria. Survival technique!
5) What else would one expect Christine to say except that she "never saw any babies strapped to potties?
6) She would have been (and still is by all accounts) very influenced by Sr. Xaveria, who was a very candid and domineering Sister of Mercy. This dependency predisposition with those who grew up in institutions is indubitably and predictably very common.
7) I grew up in Goldenbridge, and I dare anyone to challenge me to say that there were never any babies strapped to potties in the institution.
8) I saw them everyday with my own two eyes.
9) Then again, I was not ever a non- consenting teenage employee of Sr. Xaveria. As indeed, was Christina!
10) I was just a non-consenting illegal unpaid Goldenbridge child slave labourer. Unless that is if one considers a once yearly 2/6d (old Irish half crown) as sufficient, remuneration for jobs (such as rosary beads assembling) rendered.
11) Pets in Goldenbridge were/are as dissimilar as chalk and cheese in every sphere in their outlook with respect of Goldenbridge (abhorrent) events
12) One, believe me, has to have had grown up there to understand the dynamics of the abysmal institution... Retrospectively, even as child prisoners in the institution they would have been as divided as, they indeed are now because of the disparate treatment that was to them meted out...
13) I would like to remind all readers to 'This is Memory' to pay no attention to the diatribe apropos Goldenbridge that Rory Connor dishes out on alliancesupport.org. This ex-religious Roman Catholic seminarian does not have any legitimate affiliation to matters pertaining to institutional Child Abuse. He is a self-appointed spokesperson.
14) Reputable people with legitimate interests in Institutional Child Abuse issues allegedly say that he is being paid by Religious organisations to try to pin the dirt on those who have made complaints about their childhoods in the industrial schools of Ireland of the past.
15) Rory Connor, the despicable character that he is has also purportedly stooped so low to try to belittle those who have already died in tragic circumstances. His gross actions are far too horrific to state here.
Victim/survivor of St Vincent's Industrial School, Goldenbridge, Inchicore, Dublin. 8 Ireland. |
Name: Victim/survivor of St. Vincent's Industrial School, Goldenbridge,
Date: 05/07/2008
Comment: Taken from alliancesupport.org. Spin-doctor Rhoary!
"We are a large group of past pupils from St. Kyran's Rathdrum - during the period of 1960-1989. We wish to express our deepest concern and upset at recent media reports about Sr Xaveria.
She is not a cruel person."
1) Just to clarify it for the record, with respect of this paragraph of a letter which was in 1996 drawn up by a solicitor [Binchy] of which can by readers be viewed @ alliancesupport.org. Sister Xaveria went in "1963" to St. Kyran's Rathdrum, Co Wicklow, Eire. In addition, NOT in "1960"! Just in case, one gets that impression from the particle of the above letter. Her supporters cannot therefore speak for her for those three years. I have explained to readers some of the reasons why I think Sister Xaveria changed when she went to St. Kyran's. To briefly reiterate she had absolutely no choice! The open environment she found herself in saw to all of that! Nonetheless, a leopard does not too easily change its spots. So I would not be too inwardly assured that there was a sudden total transformation to that of her 'cruel'
character and reign in Goldenbridge. We have here albeit only her supporters side of the story to make judgment.
"She is not a cruel person."
2) I note that the solicitor used the word "is" as opposed to "was" Binchy after all drew up the letter in 1996 - and the date that her supporters were last in St Kyran's was in 1989. So how could they speak for her [then] present [1996] position? Unless, of course, that is - that they were/are her friends to that/this day. It was common for 'pets' "only" to visit the sisters for years afterwards when they left their respective institutions, [not orphanages as some like to refer to them]. They were 'the only ones' who maintained contact With the religious. Some even had life long contact. Some also sadly became very highly disturbed because of the abnormal interest that was by the sisters in them taken.
To conclude, Sister Xaveria was a very 'cruel person' to children in Goldenbridge.
SR. Xaveria also had her pets in Goldenbridge.
It would to me be unsurprising if she did not continue to have pets during her time in Rathdrum.
I would also not be too daunted to hear that the supporters of Sr. Xaveria were also employed by her.
Victim/survivor of St. Vincent's Industrial School, Goldenbridge, Inchicore, Dublin, 8 Eire. |
Name: Rory Connor
Date: 05/07/2008
Comment: LETTER FROM 'GOLDENBRIDGE GIRL' AND "RECOVERED MEMORY"
See the article "Letter from Goldenbridge Girl" on www.alliancesupport.org on 5 December 2007. The link is http://www.alliancesupport.org/news/archives/002062.html or try site archives or Google.
This is one of the most unusual documents to come out after the broadcast of 'Dear Daughter' by RTE in February 1996. This lady spent 10 years in Goldenbridge from 1955, has "nothing but happy memories of my childhood during that time" and cannot understand the media coverage of alleged abuse. After the broadcast, her own children felt that she had misled them about her time there!
The letter also suggests how "Recovered Memory" can be triggered by biased and vicious TV "documentaries". In this particular case, it did NOT happen but RM was once taken very seriously in the UK and it is still strong in the USA.
Rory Connor
Quote from letter by Ann Mahr published in The Irish Times on 1 May 1996:
"While I wouldn't dream of disputing these allegations I feel that perhaps the whole thing wasn't investigated properly. Before the media coverage nobody consulted me about my time at Goldenbridge or consulted me before a photograph of me in a group of girls which included Christine Buckley was printed in a Sunday newspaper. A number of people have contacted me who were also in Goldenbridge at the time who wondered where these allegations were coming from as we were not aware of any of it."
If this lady was a "pet" as alleged by one of the anonymous letter writers then there were a lot of them and Sister Xavieria kept in contact with them for decades afterwards (see my previous posting). Is that normal with teachers' pets? |
Name: Rory Connor
Date: 05/07/2008
Comment:
GOLDENBRIDGE INDUSTRIAL SCHOOL
[I see there are now a total of 5 anonymous letters on this subject. For technical reasons I have to resubmit my original 2 letters.]
Regarding Marie Therese O'Loughlin's comment on Goldenbridge Industrial School on 27 June 2008, I sent the following material to Sarah who made the original enquiry on 23 June. This includes letters that appeared in The Irish Times in 1996 about the nun at the centre of this so called "abuse scandal".
I find it incredible that the same claims are being repeated more than a decade later.
Rory Connor
The article "Sister Xavieria Support Groups" appears on the Alliance Support website www.alliancesupport.org on 7 December 2007. Link is http://www.alliancesupport.org/news/archives/002064.html.
(If the link does not work you can find it through the site "News Archives" or Google)
The article includes published letters from former pupil Paul Field, retired Principal Officer in Dept. of Education, James Wade and a retired senior social worker Hilda Cassidy who worked with Sister Xavieria in Goldenbridge and subsequently. The following is a quote from Hilda Cassidy:
"I worked closely with Sr Xaveria during her term in Goldenbridge, and subsequently in St Kyran's, Rathdrum. The woman I knew was a kind, generous hearted, dedicated nun who went far beyond the normal call of duty in her devotion to the children placed in her care. I cannot reconcile my impression of her with the cruel tyrant depicted in the documentary Dear Daughter, and in the many radio calls and letters to the papers."
The following quotes from an article in the Irish Times on 5 March 1996 regarding former pupils of St. Kyran's:
"Jenny, Ann and Alan - who are showing me the photographs - are just three members of the newly formed Sister Xavieria Support Group, which is made up of more than 20 adults in their thirties, all of whom were raised by Sister Xavieria and others at St Kyran's during the 1960s and 1970s. Sister Xavieria, they tell me, became a dedicated surrogate parent to them and never lost touch or stopped caring for them, even after they had left St Kyran's to make their way in life."
Are we supposed to believe that all of the above were "pets" who got special treatment? |
Name: Victim/Survivor of Goldenbridge Industrial School
Date: 05/07/2008
Comment: Taken from: alliancesupport.org website mid Dec 2007.
"However, in Monday's edition of Morning Ireland on RTE Radio 1, a woman who grew up in St Kyran's, Rathdrum, gave a quite different picture of the same nun, Sister Xavieria."
When Sr. Xaveria from Goldenbridge in the early sixties moved to St Kyran's, Rathdrum, it is a known fact to all of us, (I think, most of us, anyway who remember her - who had no families to go to on summer holiday's and of whom subsequently went each year to St Joseph's, Holiday Home) that she had doubtless comparatively mellowed. As we then oftentimes visited the Industrial School on Sundays. Again, (I individually would positively have noticed the difference.) The woman who grew up in St Kyran's would have gone there (I recall) in 1965. Therefore, my reminiscence of Sr Xaveria would have been in and around the same time, she was there. However, she would never have been in a position to make a Goldenbridge comparison. How could she? She was never there. Sister Xaveria left the gulag in 1963. She can only tell it from her Rathdrum perception. Besides, the beautiful surroundings in Rathdrum would have lent enormously to Sr. Xaveria's newfound 'mild' demeanour. I am sure of that - again, I have to say it that I saw her with my own to eyes. In addition, St Kyran's was a much more open and less stressful place, so it would have been more difficult for her in my estimation to relate to the children in the same 'fearful' way she did in Goldenbridge. Even the staff from Goldenbridge, Industrial School took on a more passive nature when they went on holidays with us each summer to nearby St Joseph's Holiday Home, Rathdrum. It, albeit was ever so short-lived as when we returned to Goldenbridge it was back as usual to the normal fearful ways. Incidentally, the woman who defends Sr. Xaviera may have been for all we know a pet of hers. In addition, she went there at a time when things were slowly changing. Sister Xaveria also had her pets in Goldebridge.
I would hazard a guess that the woman who spoke to Morning Ireland on RTE Radio I PRAISING Sister Xaveria is/was more than likely - a pet. They were - (as I have uttered on innumerable times on the Internet) in Goldenbridge - the bane of our lives.
Sr. Xaveria, in Goldenbridge in my day was the most feared Sister of Mercy. Children lived in fear o her each day of their young lives. Sister Mary Bernadine (who was before my time, thank goodness) was by all accounts even more severe than Sr. Xaveria (Severia) was.
BTW, it is Sister "Xaveria," not what Rory Connor has written above on alliancesupport.org. He routinely misspells her name, which tells one that he is not familiar with her on a personal level excepting that from what he reads in the tabloids. In addition, Sister X is just that - a sister, a congregational sister, from a religious organisation known as the SISTERS of "Mercy." She is NOT a nun. A nun can also be a 'sister' but a sister is not necessarily a nun, only a sister that is the case with Sister X. Sorry, but it is not intentional of me to confound the reader.
My picture is also a different one to the one to given to Morning Ireland Radio I. It is/was a real life portrait. Rory Connor, for a man who was a near De la Silly Brother - he has many typos in his spellings. Why do I ponder? Is he perhaps distracted with all the various concoctions he dishes out a la la la opus dei carte.
Victim/survivor of St Vincent's, industrial School, Goldenbridge, Inchicore, Dublin, 8 Ireland.
* St Joseph's Holiday Home for Girls was only a stone's throw from the boy's St Kyran's Industrial School, Rathdrum, Co Wicklow, Ireland. It was a home distinctly purchased by the Sister's of Mercy with the profits from the assemblage of Rosary Beads by the prisoners of Goldenbridge Gulag. A portion of the grounds of the Summer home and two old cottages were handed over by the Sisters of Mercy to the Redress Board to help pay towards (our equitable) compensation (that we were not in receipt of when we were as mere children from very young ages on a daily basis perpetually slaving away making rosary beads. I stipulated before that we received 2/6 per annum, for our slavery services rendered, but I must make it much more succinct in stating that we immediately handed over our earnings (if we were lucky enough to receive it, that was) to a staff member who had a makeshift tuck shop in place. We did not during my incarceration period) have bank accounts set up in our names with monies from our child slave labour activities
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Name: Victim/Survivor of Goldenbridge Industrial School
Date: 04/07/2008
Comment: "On 23 June Sarah Vincent asked for some information on Goldenbridge Industrial School in Ireland where her mother had apparently been decades ago."
Mr Connor, you failed (selectively) to mention the following 'information': "my mum was at golden bridge and had told me everything that went on in there, my mum has had a terrible life because of what happened in there, she is 6 stone in weight and is a very nervous lady,"
The daughter of the woman who made the comment "is exceedingly traumatised by her childhood in Goldenbridge Child Prison" Do not forget that indeed.
The systematic abuse, which occurred in Goldenbridge (and other institutions of its kind), has been dealt with by The Commission to Inquire into Institutional Child Abuse (CICA). The Irish Government explicitly set it up because it had control over those of who (through no fault of their own) were, by it incarcerated into those hellholes. So if you have any sweat at all, Mr Connor why don't you make advances to that apposite authoritative source as opposed to leaping all over various websites spouting out purported nonsensical poppycock.. It leads you nowhere, only down a crooked road. You need a clean towel to dry off all that denunciation that you have falsely accumulated throughout the years from listening to those on one side of the fence... You have smashed all your constant ranting, like a broken record, into smithereens. You know, you can express to CICA (in comfort) all the "alleged" broken pieces you can gather that you have concerning Goldenbridge Industrial School inmates, etc, to Judge Ryan to your heart's content. I am sure he will lend you a listening ear, now that it has been by the government given an extension of eight months. It can be contacted here > www.childabusecommission.ie < As you are only wearing yourself out. God help you is all I say. May the blessings of Mother Mary be upon you as you go about your ill chosen, wearisome, fruitless duties?
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Name: Victim/Survivor of Goldenbridge Industrial School
Date: 04/07/2008
Comment: "This lady spent 10 happy years in Goldenbridge from 1955 and cannot understand the media coverage of alleged abuse".
This woman must have been a "pet" in Goldenbridge Industrial School. Special treatment was by the religious/lay management reserved for "pets" or rather, "La la's" As those of us who were on the lowest rungs of the institutional ladder invariably called them indeed. Was there by any chance a disparate a hierarchical system in place at your noviciate? I believe the De la Salle Brothers of whom you were a novice has one of the worst records in the world for sexual/emotional mental abuse of children. BTW, I would more than welcome a debate, on Goldenbridge with this woman in question. Bring her on to this wonderful site, pray, do. As a third, party like you is of no use at all. You were never there and you therefore only speak from the crooked corner of your religious mouth.
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Name: Rory Connor
Date: 04/07/2008
Comment: GOODBYE TO GOLDENBRIDGE
On 23 June Sarah Vincent asked for some information on Goldenbridge Industrial School in Ireland where her mother had apparently been decades ago. I sent her information PRIVATELY by e-mail.
Then on 27 June Marie Therese O'Loughlin wrote about that "horrendous, god –forsaken, unspeakable" etc Gulag etc. So today I published much the same data that I had sent to Ms. Vincent.
Since then there have been TWO anonymous letters about the alleged horrors of religious-run Industrial Schools in Ireland decades ago. I don't propose to say any more but I think there is enough material now on record for people to make up their own minds.
(However do look at the website www.ultimatedisposal.com - it is run by members of SOCA, the group recommended by Miss O'Loughlin) |
Name: Victim/Survivor of Goldenbridge Industrial School
Date: 04/07/2008
Comment: "Louis Lentin’s documentary Dear Daughter. Made in 1996, that film told the story of the horrific abuse suffered by Christine Buckley in the Goldenbridge Orphanage run by the Sisters of Mercy. Dear Daughter raised questions about institutional childcare, and particularly about the Sisters of Mercy who were one of the religious orders most involved in the provision of industrial schools. States of Fear broadened the debate beyond blaming one industrial school, or one religious order, to show that the same patterns resurfaced in all the industrial schools, and that child abuse was simply ingrained in the system. It prompted an apology by the Irish Government to all the children who had been contained in the Industrial Schools for the suffering which had been inflicted on them."
www.culturevulture.net/Books/SuffertheLittleChildren.htm
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Name: Survivor of The Bad Shepherd's
Date: 04/07/2008
Comment: St Georges Good Shepherd, Industrial School, Limerick Survivor
I was in George's from when I was fourteen months old.
If you weren't a catholic when you were put into George's, they had you baptised that same day and definitely before you went to bed that first night.
There used to be a superstition here in Ireland, that if a child was not baptised within hours of been born, there was a curse put on them and where ever they lived.
The Nuns
Mother Patrick, she worked in the kitchen.
Mother Good Council, she became head at one stage.
Mother Good Shepherd was in charge when I was there but not for all of my fourteen and a bit years.
There was Mother Anthony, Mother Pauline in the bakery.
For me the most terrible nun, was Mother Good Shepherd.
She was savage in all ways and in all our days when she was in charge.
There was Mother Leoncia(pheonetic)she was, like me now, a nurse and worked in the infirmary.
There was mother Loretta, she worked in the top room with the shoe repairs.
Of course there was Mother Josephine, she played the piano.
Mother Joseph, who is now Sister Breed Mullin, in charge of all enquiries relating to past residents.
Education
It is well documented that kids like us present as autistic, or in some way retarded.
This is due to intellectual deprivation along with terrible trauma.
As you know, frightened children cannot learn.
They direct all their vitality towards survival of the self.
This develops into a way of surviving, even in the adult world.
It's fear of risk to change I suppose.
Of course the impact of formative years of trauma leaves many adults with a deficit of intellectual ability.
Our reading and writing at age 14 was around the six year old stage.
When we enter the adult world the only thing we understand is survival.
Indeed we were brought up with such a low opinion of ourselves that even as adults we believe that education is not for the likes of us.
When I left Georges, I had a reading age of about eight.
I could just about write my name.
I knew the alphabet and times tables up to 10, but that was the extent of my learning.
I remember spending my days in the class room wondering if I was going to be called to be whipped or not.
You see only the nun in charge whipped us.
And she worked like this.
She would tell us to go to her office at a certain time and date.
That date could be any thing like three and more weeks away.
So our young minds were consumed about what was going to happen to us; so we couldn't learn our lessons.
Penance:
We had to kneel in front of the nun sitting on a kind of throne in the refectory; we were doing what was called," penance" and were put in The Black Hole.
This was a form of solitary confinement.
It was a pitch dark room. We were put in that room from any thing between three and five days.
We were only allowed out to kneel in front of the nun, for our meals of dry bread and black coco without sugar.
We were put into penance petticoats, which were grey things that had no sleeves.
And that black hole was like cold storage, even in the hot summer.
Our socks were taken and shoe laces were taken from us and we had to stand in that black hole for three to five days and only allowed to go to the loo, when one of the older girls, who would have been brought up in Georges, opened the door to let us go to the loo.
She was forbidden to talk or look at us.
She had to keep her eyes down while she escorted us to the loo and brought us back to the black hole and locked us in.
This was punishment for things like skitting in the church or when saying the rosary in the evening or even for whispering in the refectory during meals.
Puberty:
When we were twelve years old, we were made to wear what we called top corsets.
These things, made by the older girls, were about four layers of calico with strings that came from the back round to the front.
We had to tighten these strings very tight and the nuns used to rub our backs to make sure we were wearing them.
The whole idea was to prevent our breasts growing and in adult life they did permanent damage to many of us, in that we could not breast feed our infants, because our nipples weren't developed, due to these top corsets.
Leaving:
I went to London, was a cleaner in a nursing home and in those two years I went to evening classes.
At first I had to do a literacy course and from there I went on to study and obtain five o levels; three b's and two c's.
Nursing wasn't something that came naturally to me, but it offered me security and a safe place to live.
Because even though I'd obtained a formal education,
I was still very institutionalised in that I was too frightened to live on my own.
I needed the institutional environment of nursing to feel safe and secure.
Trauma;
Another very prominent trauma in children like us is that we are known as the 'affectionless thieves'.
By this is meant we really can't love anyone.
We are possessive and when we have kids we are possessive of them and over protective of them and we over love them because it's the first time in our lives that we experience what it is to really love.
Pleasure and Love are very confused for us.
We often mistake pleasure, especially sexual pleasure for love. A survivor from St Georges, Industrial School, Limerick, Eire. |
Name: Michael
Date: 04/07/2008
Comment: I'm just an ordinary 70 year old bloke who has NO time for Religion of any sort but the 'Red Sea' story proves without a shadow of a doubt that "God" should be charged with "Premeditated Mass Murder of the First Order" for the people & animals "HE" drowned.
Thou shalt not kill, What a joke!!!
Mike |
Name: Larry Houle
Date: 03/07/2008
Comment: FREEDOM OF SPEECH
By
Larry Houle
www.godofreason.com
E-mail: intermedusa@yahoo.com
Freedom of speech and expression are unimpeachable human rights. We have the right to reason, to explore, to seek the truth of any question - total freedom of thought. To think and reason without fear of jail/death. No one has the right to threaten, coerce, intimidate anyone with torture, prison or death for freely expressing, views that they do not agree with – no matter how abhorrent those views.
We have the right to challenge any ideology, government, leaders of any state, heads of any organizations, the tenets and beliefs of any ideology - religious or otherwise. The right to write any thought, read any book, pursue any intellectual enterprise in the arts, literature, sciences, paint any picture, draw any caricature no matter how offense.
The right to change one’s religion without fear of death. The right to freely preach and practice non violently one’s religion without coercion or intimidation but with liberty and tolerance in any country. The right to explore the truth of any religious question, including the truth as to the origins, sources, and teachings of any religion. The unqualified liberty to question and descent from any religion and its teachings. The right to condemn all religious practices that violate human rights. The total and complete rejection of religious teachings of extermination, genocide, murder, terror, violence, hate, torture, cruelty, intolerance and bigotry. The right not to believe in God.
All mankind has the right to freedom and democracy, equality before the law, freedom of action, freedom of thought.
Freedom of speech, expression, press, democracy, can be bled to death not by a 1000 cuts. Just a few strategic stabs can leave our freedoms that tens of thousands of brave soldiers died defending bleeding slowly to death on the side of the road.
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Name: OB
Date: 02/07/2008
Comment: Sorry! That was a dud link to the full version of Ibn Warraq's article on Said - I've fixed it now. It's also available, slightly revised, as the first chapter in his new book Defending the West. |
Name: Drid Williams
Date: 02/07/2008
Comment: Somewhere, there is supposed to be a fully referenced (with bib) version of Warraq's essay on Said (shortened version entitled "Debunking Edward Said". I would like to have the full version. How do I get it? |
Name: Allen Esterson
Date: 01/07/2008
Comment: Re the "Boycott Duban II" article by Pascal Bruckner linked by B&W (alluding to the ludicrous Durban Review Conference on Human Rights slated for 2009), the British Minister for Europe Jim Murphy stated:
"We will continue to work to make sure that the conference is a success, but we will play no part in an international conference that exhibits the degree of anti-Semitism that was disgracefully on view on the previous occasion."
http://www.ejpress.org/article/27046
Working to make sure the conference is a success? There's a place for diplomatic language in international exchanges, but this comes from another planet. Compare Murphy's mealy-mouthed declaration with this unequivocally principled stand by Canada
"Earlier this year, Canada announced that it will not attend the 'Durban II' conference, saying it is shaping up to be as anti-Semitic and anti-West as the first gathering."
http://www.ngo-monitor.org/article/durban_canada_says_it_will_not_participate
According to NGO Monitor, Canada is confirmed to boycott the conference, with France, Israel, US and UK as potential boycotters:
http://www.ngo-monitor.org/article/durban_conference_0
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Name: DFG
Date: 01/07/2008
Comment: Re: the article by Dunbar on Hitchens.
"but basic physics tell us that it’s heat that generates light"
Oh, it does, does it? |
Name: Marie-Therese O' Loughlin
Date: 27/06/2008
Comment: Re: Goldenbridge Industrial School
Sarah, thank you very much for your comment on this site. I am so inordinately sorry to hear that your mother (who was presumably by the court system, incarcerated in Goldenbridge) is not in the best of health. It is albeit
so unreservedly explicable, given the past life she, invariably, would have endured at the hands of the Sisters of (no) Mercy, in that (horrendous, god –forsaken, unspeakable industrial school in Inchicore, Dublin, Ireland. Alas, a gargantuan amount of ex-inmates lives either has by ill health/mental affliction other innumerable unnecessary factors been shortened or has been irreparably damaged because of the cruel system that prevailed in that child labour camp (and other gulags of its ilk.) I shall presently contact you at the e-mail address you have given. There is a centre in London, called SOCA, which deals distinctively with victims/survivors of past institutional child abuse in Ireland. Aislinn Cente, Jervis St, Dublin also entertains many people who were in St Vincent’s, Goldenbridge. There could be some attendees who go there = who may know of your mother, Teresa. All the best! |
Name: ...
Date: 25/06/2008
Comment: >Iranian women's rights activist sentenced to five years in prison<
RECOMMENDED ACTION: Please send appeals to arrive as quickly as possible, in Persian, Arabic, English, French or your own language:
- expressing concern that Hana Abdi has been sentenced to five years' imprisonment, and urging the authorities to release her and Ronak Safarzadeh immediately and unconditionally, as they are prisoners of conscience, detained solely for their peaceful activities in support of equal rights for women in Iran;
- calling on the authorities to order an investigation into reports that Ronak Safarzadeh and Hana Abdi were tortured or otherwise ill-treated, and bring those responsible to justice.
APPEALS TO:
Head of the Judiciary
His Excellency Ayatollah Mahmoud Hashemi Shahroudi
Howzeh Riyasat-e Qoveh Qazaiyeh / Office of the Head of the Judiciary
Pasteur St., Vali Asr Ave., south of Serah-e Jomhouri, Tehran 1316814737, Islamic Republic of Iran
Email: info@dadgostary-tehran.ir (In the subject line write: FAO Ayatollah Shahroudi)
Salutation: Your Excellency
Governor of Kordestan Province
Esmail Najjar
Email: In Persian and Kurdish, send via feedback form on the website:
http://www.ostan-kd.ir/Default.aspx?tabId=150&cv=4@0_1
In English, French or other languages, use the feedback form on the website:
http://en.ostan-kd.ir/Default.aspx?TabID=59
Salutation: Dear Governor
COPIES TO:
President
His Excellency Mahmoud Ahmadinejad
The Presidency
Palestine Avenue, Azerbaijan Intersection
Tehran, Islamic Republic of Iran
Fax: + 98 21 6 649 5880
Email: dr-ahmadinejad@president.ir
via website: http://www.president.ir/email/
Director, Human Rights Headquarters of Iran
His Excellency Mohammad Javad Larijani
C/o Office of the Deputy for International Affairs
Ministry of Justice,
Ministry of Justice Building, Panzdah-Khordad (Ark) Square,
Tehran, Islamic Republic of Iran
and to diplomatic representatives of Iran accredited to your country.
PLEASE SEND APPEALS IMMEDIATELY. Check with the International Secretariat, or your section office, if sending appeals after 1 August 2008.
|
Name: Jeremy Freedman
Date: 25/06/2008
Comment: Islamic Tolerance in the New Afghanistan: Journalist who wrote an interpretation of the Koran
Karachi, 23 June (AKI) -- An Afghan journalist accused of distributing an unacceptable translation of the Koran should be put to death, says former Prime Minister Ahmad Shah Ahmadzai. Former journalist Ghows Zalmay, who was also the spokesman for Afghanistan's Attorney-General, was arrested in November last year for distributing a translation of the Koran into Dari, one of Afghanistan's two official languages. Ahmadzai, who ran in the 2004 presidential election against current President Hamid Karzai, told Adnkronos International (AKI) he supported the death penalty for Zalmay. "Today Afghanistan is full of vices. Several Afghan restaurants serve liquor, despite it being illegal and on top of it, such material is distributed," Ahmadzai told AKI. "I am in favour of his death."
Ghows, 50, is reportedy in jail after being accused of blasphemy and his lawyers say he risks the death penalty. He is expected to face charges in an Afghan court within the next week. "This is all an American conspiracy to deviate Afghans from their faith," said Al-Hajj Farooq Hussaini, […]
Hussaini also referred to the case of Abdul Rahman, an Afghan Christian convert who was granted asylum in Italy in 2006. Rahman escaped a possible death sentence in Afghanistan for becoming a Christian. "Earlier they protected Abdul Rahman who left Islam and converted to Christianity and now they are encouraging the distribution of the fake translations of Koran," said Hussaini who is also the leader of a group led by Ismail Khan, Afghanistan's Energy Minister.
see http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/
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Name: sarah vincent
Date: 23/06/2008
Comment: hi my name is sarah vincent, i am the daughter of teresa vincent. my mum was at golden bridge and had told me everything that went on in there, my mum has had a terrible life because of what happened in there, she is 6 stone in weight and is a very nervous lady, please could you give me any more information on this as you may know my mum. her name then was teresa shannon. please email me or phone me on 07969103470 i live in england. |
Name: anon
Date: 22/06/2008
Comment: http://2cents.dailyreckoning.com/viewtopic.php?t=28930&highlight=scientology |
Name: arman
Date: 22/06/2008
Comment: Iranian women's rights activist sentenced to five years in prison
The lawyer of an Iranian women's rights activist says his client was convicted on security-related charges and sentenced to five years in prison.
Mohammad Sharif described the verdict for his client, 22-year-old women's rights activist Hana Abdi, as harsh. He told The Associated Press Saturday that her prison was also very remote.
Abdi has been in detention since November for advocating for greater freedoms for Iran's women. In Iran women need a male guardian's permission to work or travel. However they can drive, vote and run for office.
In the past three years, Iranian authorities have detained many women who fought for equal rights with men on similar charges.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1213794294935&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull |
Name: You
Date: 21/06/2008
Comment: Urban legends are not necessary fabrications and the one about the bus driver is so popular because it could be true. Nobody needs to "demonise" Muslims, their religious leaders, "moderate" (like Ishanoglu of the OIC or T.Ramadan) or more radical do the best to paint a picture of Islam as beeing a club of intolerant fanatic enemies of democracy and freedom.
Btw. what do you know about "urban myths" in the Middle East? Turns out many people there believe earnestly that the Jews put the blood of Muslim babies in their Matzos. The priorities you set (bemoaning so called "islamophobia" in the most liberal and tolerant societies of the world) reveal your real agenda: shielding Islamic oppressive cultural practices from criticism, however modest that may be. |
Name: Me
Date: 21/06/2008
Comment: Gina Khan
"In the news recently, a bus driver who was a convert stopped his bus and ordered the passengers off so that he could lay his mat out and pray. Passengers saw his rucksack and refused to get back on - and who could blame them? He should have been sacked."
The story has , like so many others, proven to a fabrication. But who cares about facts if they can be used to demonise Muslims?
http://5cc.blogspot.com/2008/04/urban-myths-and-muslim-bus-drivers.html
http://www.thisisslough.com/live/stories/story.php?story_id=3297
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Name: irredentist
Date: 19/06/2008
Comment: >the Dome of the Rock is Islam's "third >holiest site"
and the Great mosque (mezquita) of Cordoba is the 4th.
Anyone else who thinks that 500 years of occupation of Constantinople by the Muslims Turks is more than enough ?
The Sancta Sophia (desecrated and made mosque after the Muslim conquest) is 2nd holiest site of Christianity.
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Name: Berel Dov Lerner
Date: 16/06/2008
Comment: It is dis-heartnening to see a piece of tranparent propaganda ("Cowboys and Palestindians: what the Kaiser thought about Israel") appear on the Butterflies and Wheels website. The trouble begins when the the author forgets to mention the decades long campaign in which land was bought from Arabs before the creation of the State of Israel; he forgets the anti-Jewish riots; he forgets the ethnic cleansing of Jews from the east Jerusalem, where they had lived for centuries. The popular but odd claim that Jerusalem is the "third holiest city" for Islam (something like saying "the third most important political party in the US Senate") morphs into the truly bizzare claim that the Dome of the Rock is Islam's "third holiest site". I wonder which of the top contenders has been knocked off the list - Mecca or Medinah? Enough "mere" errors and ommisions of facts. Forgetting for a moment "Gardiner"s anti-israel polemic (and there is much more to say about it), just consider the grand historical thesis he borrows from the good Kaiser. If you are well acquainted with the history of any part of the inhabitted world, just ask yourself - is the thesis actually true? Oops - it is exactly the kind of unsupportable clap-trap that the tough-minded and skeptical "Butterlies and Wheels" is supposed to be exposing. As for "Gardiner"s policy suggetion for Israel, it seems to amount to this: "Put down your guns and let good-old-fashioned mideastern hospitality set in." I have invented an expression to describe such suggestions: "catastrophically utopian" "Gardiner"s remarkable naivite may sound ethically high-minded, but if any Israeli leader were ever took it seriously, the erosion of Israeli deterrence would quickly invite a level of conflict and bloodshed that would make the intifada Al Aqsa look like child's play. |
Name: Fraser
Date: 13/06/2008
Comment: "The al-Qa'eda links are highly disputed..."
Really? So are the Pakistani Police just lying ?
"Many of those involved in the recent terrorist attacks in the city received training in camps in Waziristan," says Tariq Jamil, chief of the Karachi police. "Jundullah has close ties with Al-Qaeda."
(Newsline)
http://www.newsline.com.pk/NewsAug2004/cover1Aug2004.htm
Al-Qaeda's New Face
"Jundullah was allegedly headed by Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the al-Qaeda operational commander of the September 11 terrorist attack in the US. He was arrested in Pakistan early last year."
(Asia Times)
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/FG20Df05.html
Asia Times Online - The best news coverage from South Asia
|
Name: Edmund Standing
Date: 13/06/2008
Comment: Fraser,
The Jundallah came into existence after the arrest of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, so I don't see how he 'headed' it. The only sources I found claiming he did were 9/11 troof sites, which based their stories on Alex Jones' junk news sites.
The al-Qa'eda links are highly disputed, and one of the key sources relied upon for making this connection (Alexis Debat) has since been exposed for a number of instances of fabricating interviews. Hardly a knock down case.
On the question of the wisdom of using extremists as a proxy army against other extremists, that's a legitimate debate. However, I know exactly what you're doing here, i.e. attempting to create spurious links between the CIA and al-Qa'eda so you can then go on to make your idiotic claims about 'false flag terror' and 'inside jobs'.
Stop trying to be clever. It isn't working, because we know the ignorance and lies you subscribe to regarding 9/11, and the conspiracy kook that you really are. |
Name: Mel
Date: 13/06/2008
Comment: ->Religious Scruple Causes Neurological Damage
tantum religio potuit suadere malorum. - Lucretius
This man endangered his childs life and caused severe brain damage, lifelong disability to it. AND HE IS STILL NOT IN JAIL? This man is instead free running around trying to make money out of the suffering of his child that he caused himself out of his psychopatic fanaticism? |
Name: HF
Date: 12/06/2008
Comment: US&education
McLEAN, Va. (AP) — Textbooks at a private Islamic school in northern Virginia teach students that it is permissible for Muslims to kill adulterers and converts from Islam, according to a federal investigation released Wednesday.
Other passages in the school's textbooks state that "the Jews conspired against Islam and its people" and that Muslims are permitted to take the lives and property of those deemed "polytheists."
at :
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5igZiBbZdKa9Gvx8uwXlsIOxoBQ5wD91859CG0 |
Name: Fraser
Date: 11/06/2008
Comment: I forgot to mention that Jundullah,the Iranian/Pakistani terrorist group who, according to the Pakistani police have "close ties with Al Qaeda", was once headed by the "mastermind" of 9/11, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.
So Mr Standing, let me get this straight, if I were to give money and weapons to this group with who are connected with Al Qaeda, an organisation which my country is fighting against, our security services would view this as helping the war effort and an act of patriotism would they ?
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Name: peter connolly
Date: 05/06/2008
Comment: Firstly I would like to complement Robert Nola on a clear and provocative treatment of the relation between religion and the notion of respect (2003). Secondly, I wonder whether he would agree that of his six types of respect only the first three can legitimately be demanded of others in a liberal society and hence that demands for any of the last three are illegitimate. |
Name: Edmund Standing
Date: 04/06/2008
Comment: Fraser,
You believe WTC 1,2 and 7 were destroyed in a controlled demolition. You probably believe a lot more than that. No plane at the Pentagon? Flight 93 shot down? Passengers' phone calls faked?
Blah blah blah.
It's all CRAP, and articles about the CIA strategically using Islamists against other Islamists does nothing to support your pseudo-scientific cultic beliefs about 9/11. |
Name: Rory Connor
Date: 03/06/2008
Comment: Regarding "More Comedy from the West Midlands Police" the following is an extract from an article by Michele Hanson in The Guardian today (3rd June):
"Two American Christian preachers have been told off by a community police officer for preaching in a Muslim area of Birmingham. Good. If only preachers were banned everywhere. The Jews don't try to convert anyone. They are not at all keen on converts, so perhaps preachers should take a leaf out of their book, because no one likes to be told that their beliefs are rubbish and someone else's are better. Is there anything more annoying than people coming to your street or your house uninvited and pushing their ideas down your throat? I was trained from an early age to detest it. My father would open the door and my mother would throw tennis balls at them from behind him - an unconventional but effective response.
The two rejected Birmingham preachers have been moaning about human rights and their freedom of expression, but preaching and American missionary-style "spreading God's word" is more about bossing than expressing. They're convinced they're right. But does anyone dare tell them off? Off they go, all over the world, come across a culture that's minding its own business, with its own perfectly adequate belief system, and insist on imposing their own ideas. What a cheek. Who am I to criticize? I must practice what I preach. So believe what you like, everyone, but leave the rest of us alone. We can make our own minds up."
Well at least the Muslim policeman who harassed the preachers was acting in accordance with his beliefs. Michele Hanson is just rationaling her cowardice. (Her article is closer to Doublethink than to Hypocrisy).
When push comes to shove who is likely to fight against the imposition of an Islamic brand of fascism - Guardian journalists or American Evangelicals? |
Name: Fraser
Date: 31/05/2008
Comment: A few thought provoking articles for your readers.........
".....the CIA is giving arms-length support, supplying money and weapons, to an Iranian militant group, Jundullah, which has conducted raids into Iran from bases in Pakistan."
(Telegraph)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1552784/Bush-sanctions-%27black-ops%27-against-Iran.html
Bush sanctions 'black ops' against Iran - Telegraph
".....Attaur Rehman is yet another face of the new Islamic militancy in Pakistan. A graduate from Karachi University, he was arrested in June for masterminding a series of terrorist attacks in Karachi. A tall and heavily built man in his early 30s, Rehman was associated with Islami Jamiat-Talba, the student wing of the Jamaat-i-Islami. He later broke away from the Jamaat to form his own militant group, Jundullah (Army of God), which draws its cadres mainly from the educated and professional classes.
According to police, Rehman is closely associated with Al-Qaeda's network in Pakistan, which has grown in strength despite the capture of hundreds of its operatives over the last few years. A well-knit cell comprising some 20 militants, most of them in their 20s and 30s, Jundullah is one of the new and, perhaps, the most fierce of the militant groups behind the recent spate of violence in Karachi. The group hit the headlines after a daring attack last month on the motorcade of Karachi's Corps Commander. The general narrowly escaped death, but 11 people, including eight soldiers were killed. It was the most serious terrorist action targeting the military since the two failed assassination attempts on President Musharraf in Rawalpindi in December last year. Jundullah has also been involved in attacks on rangers, police stations, as well as the twin car bombings outside the Pakistan-US Cultural Center last month.
Jundullah is but one of several small terrorist cells that have emerged after the government's crackdown on 'jihadi' elements. According to police officials, some 20 cells, largely splinters of the banned militant outfits, are operating in Karachi, which has become the main center of terrorist activities in recent months. "Many of those involved in the recent terrorist attacks in the city received training in camps in Waziristan," says Tariq Jamil, chief of the Karachi police. "Jundullah has close ties with Al-Qaeda."
(Newsline)
http://www.newsline.com.pk/NewsAug2004/cover1Aug2004.htm
Al-Qaeda's New Face
"The CIA has denied any direct ties with the group, but U.S. officials tell ABC News U.S. intelligence officers frequently meet and advise Jundullah leaders, and current and former intelligence officers are working to prevent the men from being sent to Iran."
(ABC News)
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4913927&page=1
ABC News: Pakistan May Turn Over U.S. 'Spies' to Iran |
Name: Arman B.
Date: 30/05/2008
Comment: Urgent Attention
Another free thinker is to be executed in Iran in the coming days
It is with great regret that I inform all freedom loving people of the world that the Mullahs' terrorist regime is about to execute one of Iran's finest thinkers, a true patriot, scholar and historian.
Dr. Foroud Fouladvand is a dedicated monarchist, a Ferdousi expert as well as expert on the history of Iran and Islam.
A confirmed report sent to the office of Dr. Fouladvand in London from inside Iran suggests that Dr. Fouladvand and two of his compatriots are going to be executed on Saturday, May 31, 2008 or possibly even sooner.
The two men to be executed alongside Dr. Fouladvand are Mr. Nazem Schmidtt, an Iranian/American citizen, aka Simorgh, and Mr. Alexander Valizadeh, an Iranian/ German citizen, aka Koroush Lor.
Dr. Fouladvand, a British citizen, was known throughout the Iranian community for his open criticism of Islam and the Mullah's tyranny.
Dr. Fouladvand, who is an expert on Islam, openly challenged the Qur'an in his daily television broadcasts for listeners both inside and outside Iran. His Television discussions were offensive to the Mullahs. On March 10, 2006, in a preplanned action, about 65 of his supporters refused to leave a Lufthansa plane in protest of the European Union's policy of appeasement of the Mullahs' regime.
Dr. Fouladvand was led to believe by an agent of the Mullahs' regime posing as a monarchist activist from within Iran that there were many Iranian patriots inside Iran who believed in him, and that a meeting with them would be fruitful in organizing and uniting people inside Iran to oppose the Mullahs. On October 13, 2006, Dr. Fouladvand and a number of his friends, including the above-named men, left London for the Turkish/Iranian border. The last news of Dr. Fouladvand's whereabouts was on January
17, 2007, when he was expected to meet the supposedly Iranian activists in the Kurdish province of Hakkary in Iraq, which is close to the Iranian border.
In January 2007, the agents of the Mullahs' secret police arrested and smuggled these three men into Iran, where they were imprisoned and were subjected to torture.
Please contact anyone you can. Alert government officials, the press, the Amnesty International and the human rights organizations in your country of residence.
|
Name: Mel
Date: 30/05/2008
Comment: LEAVING MUSLIM WOMEN UNPROTECTED: Red Tape Makes it Harder to Prevent Honor Killings
German red tape and a lack of will on the part of officialdom is putting some Muslim women in a very dangerous position. Instead of protecting them from the threat of honor killings, some of the bureaucracy actually increases the risk.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,555496,00.html |
Name: Mel
Date: 30/05/2008
Comment: THE HIGH PRICE OF FREEDOM:
Honor Killing Victim Wanted to Live Like other German Girls
"At age 16, all Morsal Obeidi wanted was to live the way other girls in Germany do. She paid dearly: Obeidi's brother stabbed her 20 times. Her murder has sparked a renewed debate in Germany about the failure of many immigrant families to integrate into Western society."
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,555667,00.html
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